Sutiable Substrate For Discus Comunity Tank

[Scherb]

Hello. So when i set up my 130g i want to have the best substrate for the fish i have. So it will be a community tank with the same fish i have in my 55g just more of them, and i want to stay planted so what do you think ? i figure plant dirt and sand would work best but not sure. especially interested in what Discus keepers have to say. Cheers

[gklaw]

I am not sure about plant "dirt" but sand would be fine. Make sure you have some bottom cleaner to pick up some of the waste.

[Scherb]

I am not sure about plant "dirt" but sand would be fine. Make sure you have some bottom cleaner to pick up some of the waste.

Hello. i chose the dirt cause i need something to feed the plants slowly so i don't have to use plant food, not sure if dirt is best but have seen it in other discus setups. as for bottom feeders, corydoras, snails and bnp. Cheers

[Luke78]

With a planted setup as mentioned already,and the size of the aquarium to match,the expensive plant substrates may cost a bit to add. Going half and half and substituting something else like sand for example may help you out setup and cost wise.As for the Discus, keeping substrates below '2 inches is something i did in the past and currently.These are just my experiences iam sharing with you,and sure others will chime in here with discus and tell their own.Sand has been my choice,and found easier to clean and work with.Discus dont like 'high nitrates' in their water,and this has to be observed and monitored maintaince wise.Too much waste,decaying plant matter, or food trapped some where may rise these perimeters.Vacumming the substrate has to be done,but as the same time not disturb the roots of the plants.As for bottom feeders, these guys will re decorate to their own liking, so any plants have to be planted securely and in some spots deeply depending on the plant species.Make sure to add a huge 'open area' that your discus could use and swim about,you dont want them stuffed in a corner or hidden all the time.Lights periods are another thing to consider, my wilds didnt appreciate the high output light i was using for my plants,and actually down graded to old T8 bulbs and shorter periods in the end, and gave up on the plants.Iam sure providing some shade either by floating plants,longer steamed plants, or shorter lighting periods will benefit them.Be wise with your ferts,Co2,etc when having discus,any sudden changes can have effects on them too.


Iam not here to tell you cant be successfull with a planted/discus setup, many have been but it does take time,effort,consistancy,and above all patience to succeed.Good luck with your new setup!Post some pics when your done!

[discuspaul]

Luke has given you some very practical suggestions that have worked extremely well for me too over the years. Pool filter sand is a great substrate for a community planted discus tank - I've been using it for years with very good results, using root tab ferts, as well as liquid or dry ferts in the water column, and moderate light without CO2.
As Luke said, a good vacuuming routine is essential with each wc (I do 2 -3 wcs a week).
It's easy to keep clean, looks good, is just great for the discus and any bottom-dwellers such as Cories. His last sentence above is the key to success with sand - use it at a depth of no more than 2-3 inches.
Here's the look of my tank to give you an idea of what it may look like in your tank if you decide to give it a go:
Sept2011 pictures by discuspaul - Photobucket
Should you opt for PFS, I'd be happy to give you a few pointers on how to keep it looking clean and sharp on an ongoing basis.
Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

[Scherb]

Luke has given you some very practical suggestions that have worked extremely well for me too over the years. Pool filter sand is a great substrate for a community planted discus tank - I've been using it for years with very good results, using root tab ferts, as well as liquid or dry ferts in the water column, and moderate light without CO2.
As Luke said, a good vacuuming routine is essential with each wc (I do 2 -3 wcs a week).
It's easy to keep clean, looks good, is just great for the discus and any bottom-dwellers such as Cories. His last sentence above is the key to success with sand - use it at a depth of no more than 2-3 inches.
Here's the look of my tank to give you an idea of what it may look like in your tank if you decide to give it a go:
Sept2011 pictures by discuspaul - Photobucket
Should you opt for PFS, I'd be happy to give you a few pointers on how to keep it looking clean and sharp on an ongoing basis.
Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

Hello. That's an awesome tank Paul. thanks for the info. this is a tank that monkE set up. pic from the tank journals. i really like this set up and would like to do something similar. and 2 inch deep substrate is fine, but wondering why you need a certain depth ? also lets hear it, I'm a sponge and will adsorb anything i can to better my tanks, fish or plants. Cheers

[discuspaul]

Hi Scherb -
Thanks - I like my tank, even though it's simple & low-tech, but it's sure easy to maintain properly and looks reasonably good. The sand depth should be no more than you need in the planted areas for rooted plants to properly take hold - and that's no more than 2" or so, up to 3", but no more. Mine slopes down to about 1" at the front. You don't want more than 3", cause then you run a much higher risk of anaerobic gas pockets forming in the areas that are not continually stirred up on a regular basis.

Couple of very simple pointers for keeping sand clean & looking good:
With each wc, stir up the sand well in all the open, exposed areas, just to mix in/remove any dirt/detritus and any light algae film, which may build up from time to time. Then, about every 4 to 6 months or so, siphon out the top level of sand for disposal, about 15% to 20% say, and replace that with the same amount of new sand - presto - just like new.
The sand in the pics of my tank is what I put in over a year and a half before, and I've only replaced a portion of the sand twice in all that time.
Hope this helps. It's simple, but effective.

[jobber604]

...and 2 inch deep substrate is fine, but wondering why you need a certain depth ? also lets hear it, I'm a sponge and will adsorb anything i can to better my tanks, fish or plants. Cheers

Having too deep of substrate such as sand opens a chapters on problems. What kind of problems you ask?

"What about anaerobic pockets?

If organic material gets buried below the top 2 cm of sand, it can potentially turn nasty. Anaerobic decay is where bacteria consume the organic materia without using oxygen but producing gases such as hydrogen sulphide. Such gases can kill fish.

However, you can reduce the risk to zero by doing any one of a number of simple things:
-Use a thin layer of sand. Obviously if the layer of sand is only 1 cm deep, then anaerobic conditions cannot develop.
-Add burrowing fish. Things like Synodontis, Awaous gobies, kuhli loaches, and eartheater cichlids will turnover the sand constantly and remove any overlooked food. By sifting the sand, they also prevent anaerobic pockets from developing, so things like plant leaves and fish faeces decay aerobically.
Use Malayan livebearing snails. They will constantly turn over the sand, letting oxygen get in, and will also eat up any bits of waste that gets into the sand. These snails are a true blessing in the sandy aquarium!
-Use live plants. The roots of plants have evolved to live in dysaerobic or anaerobic substrates, and carry oyxgen from the water into the substrate. This keeps the substrate sweet. You won't get anaerobic decay in a well-planted aquarium.
-Use an undergravel heater. Warm water currents circulate in the gravel (convection currents) and these draw oxygen into the sand. Again, this prevents anaerobic conditions from developing."

Source: Sand As Substrate: A Quick Primer - Tropical Fish Forums

See which option would work best for your requirements. I did a bunch of reading, researching, and asking members on this site prior to deciding using sand as my substrate. I have about a 1" to 1.5" sand depth in my tank and I'm still able to grow amazon swords (heavy rooted plants) without problems.

From my own personal experience with my current tank:
Though I don't have discus, my fancy plecos do need clean water. I'm not finding any lethal problems with the anaerobic pockets...yet (*knocks on wood and head), but when I clean the sand when doing a water change, I do notice a lot of gas pockets underneath the sand. From time to time, I use a turkey baster get rid of some of the gas pockets.

Overall, sand substrate looks good and provides a more natural look. It's simple.

[Scherb]

Hello. Simple and low tech sound good to me. what plant food do you use ? i seen you mentioned root tabs, anything else ? Cheers

[Luke78]

A couple products i used in the past for plant food were roots tabs/liquid dosed stuff from SeaChem,Sera,and Pfertz.Theres quite a few products out there suited for anyone beginning to advanced.Finding that balance is key and a bit of research on your own will go a long way.A couple sponsors here bring in some products worth looking into, get into contact with them and see what they have to offer.

Hello. Simple and low tech sound good to me. what plant food do you use ? i seen you mentioned root tabs, anything else ? Cheers