Water Parameter FAQ (kind of a rant for me :P)

[budahrox]

keep things stable
research the conditions your fish like, set your tank up accordingly and dont constantly adjust, keep it stable
nothing survives in pure water so not buffering and having your fish die is the waste of money, be a fish keeper not just a fish buyer

Well said
Cheers!!

[punchbuggy]

Yes I think Mferko got what I meant. I'm not against buffering, personally I am FOR it. However, I am utmost against adding an assortment to set a fixed "goal"

Let me illustrate

I want a soft water tank with some minerals
I go out and buy some Equilibrium.
I also plant this tank and inject CO2, and I don't want crazy pH swings.
I go out and buy some alkaline.

I prep my tank like that from start to finish and every WC. Fishies are happy.
Happy Ending.

What I am against is,

Scenario 1

I want a soft water tank with some minerals.
I get a new tank and really like this substrate, it is "crushed coral" "rocky pebbles"
I bring home my fish and they don't look too happy.
I go online and read about this and that, and I measure my tank and become SHOCKED that my pH is 8, and GH is 10 and KH is 9.
I run out and buy Acid buffer. I start injecting CO2 to bring down pH as well. I buy a water softener. I check my water now and it looks perfect.
Next day I go back and check my tank. The pH isn't anymore, its 7.4, but I want it down more. So I add more acid buffer. Oh it looks Perfect
Next day I go back and check my tank when the CO2 is on, Oh my the pH is super low!. I run out and buy alkaline and add that.

Repeat
Repeat
Repeat

Not only are the fish subjected to stress you are wasting money.

Scenario 2 (More of a BC Water Case)

I start tank.
I want a soft-water tank.
I use neutral substrate
Everything looks good and then I read online that parameters must be so and so.
I rush out and buy an assortment of buffers because I am so set on getting everything right. I am adding this and that at various times on various days. Nothing is stable.

So I am not saying it is a waste of money. I buy them . I am saying, you need to be educated before you add stuff. For BC water, most of us only need things to increase GH and KH. As you said our water will naturally go down in pH, so why add tons of acid? If it is around 7.0 and not that well buffered, in a few days it will be 6.8. Why add additives? If I added some it would be 6.8 immediately add on natural processes it will be 6.5 perhaps in a few days after that. It is because people want a certain parameter. If you are so fixated on that then you will be adding stuff back and forth.

So let me clarify again. I use buffers. I know how they behave my system. I add the same amounts each time proportional to the volume of water. When I see a parameter "outside" of what I want, I do not rush out and instantly add more chemicals.

I understand you are trying to help people at your store who bring their water in and you teach them to add these things. I also understand why some people don't listen to you because "their fish have been fine for years". I'm just worried that when you tell people to start adding compounds, they'll be so fixated on that, that it will end up doing more harm. In both cases it is bad. Not fixing the water causes unhealthy but alive fish. Radically changing the water all the time causes just instant tank failure.

In regards to the "fixing" the system. Yes there is drift, but when someone sees it they shouldn't instantly change their water and put it back to where they want. That would do more harm. As you say, in nature there is a fresh water source that keeps everything balanced. In our systems, however, we do not. But also in a stream you don't get a sudden influx, it is gradual. Streams from say tributaries feed the main river and slowly change the chemistry. Yes there are exceptions, rainy seasons say, which promote breeding. But in our cases, we aren't going from a good condition to a rainy season which causes our fish to breed. We are going from a very unhappy low pH low mineral content water to a sudden gush of mineral rich buffered water. The fish definitely want to be in nicer water but slowly.....

[Rastapus]

Perfect, thank you for clarifying. We always recommend the same products that we use in our fish room, nothing more, nothing less. We are very consistent on that. In fact, I usually tell hobbyists not to fixate on pH, monitor the hardness and keep it within range. As your post supports, fish will adjust to minor changes in their environment, no harm there. We tell all our clients, if your hardness is around 4 your pH will be stable, dont worry if it climbs to 7.3, they will do fine. Since pH varies through the day and is difficult to read accurately with standard test kits, better to concentrate on monitoring hardness levels and put your effort there. Your fish will thank you for it!
Thanks again for the post Kelvin! I want from a little confused to very happy to see this post!

[kelownaguy]

By aged, I meant water that is sit out from the tap. But that really depends. Essentially if the taps in your system are not exposed to any air (which includes CO2) when it gets exposed to CO2 in our atmosphere it will acidify.

It is true aeration also reduces CO2, that is because you are causing bubbles. CO2 does not dissolve in water very well, the more surface tension or bubbles you produce the CO2 will be more than happy to leave than to stay in the tank. Thats why also people tend to reduce surface tension when they have planted tanks.

If you are considering "aged" water as used aquarium water, that is also true about bacteria, but it is not the only source. The reaction has to release protons, you are going from ammonia NH3 to NO2- and then NO3-, the Hs have to go somewhere! And bingo it is INHIBITED lower than ph, just because of that reaction.

I'm saving my time so look here
Nitrification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you think about all my talk about balance, just look at the first equation. If your pH is lower than 7, there are more protons. The protons are on the right side. What does nature do, it makes the reaction go in reverse, essentially stopping the conversion from ammonia to nitrites.

My taps are not exposed to air.
If I set a bucket of water out,the pH goes up not down.
If I aerate it,the pH merely goes up more quickly.

Obviously, the direction of pH movement will depend on the intial CO2 concentration.If it is above the room temperature equilibirium concentration of about 0.5ppm then pH will move upwards as CO2 is lost.If it is less than 0.5ppm intially,then pH moves down as CO2 dissolves.

I contend that average tap water CO2 concentrations are above 0.5ppm and therefore the pH of average tap water will increase when set out in a bucket,not decrease.

[punchbuggy]

My taps are not exposed to air.
If I set a bucket of water out,the pH goes up not down.
If I aerate it,the pH merely goes up more quickly.

Obviously, the direction of pH movement will depend on the intial CO2 concentration.If it is above the room temperature equilibirium concentration of about 0.5ppm then pH will move upwards.If it is less than 0.5ppm intially,then pH moves down.

I contend that average tap water CO2 concentrations are above 0.5ppm and therefore the pH of average tap water will increase when set out in a bucket,not decrease.

Yes I agree that it all depends on the initial amount. If theres a lot dissolved in the beginning it will go up. If there isn't it will go down.

I just tested this at work, I guess because I use doubly-distilled water for tanks there the pH goes down. (The water is boiled twice so it is supposedly "pure" and so will dissolve CO2 since there is nothing in there).

When I did it with the tap water for the system it goes up as CO2 is released back out into the air.

[Clownloachlover]

fist off thank you punchbuggy for posting this information, as a NEWBIE, I have found it very informative and made me realize, I have been out of Chemistry class a long time.

As a NEWBIE I have a few questions...

1) How does one increase the GH and KH of our tap water on a consistent basis?
2) Is there a means possible to increase these levels without adding tons of chemicals?
3) Once a tank is established, how often do you recommend testing these parameters?

thanks again.

[punchbuggy]

I personally,

1) do not add any chemicals directly to the tank. I would buy the necessary chemicals for GH ie. seachem equilibrium. KG ie. seachem alkaline. First test your tap water. Next, test your current tank water especially stuff that has been sitting say a week with subtrate. Then after deciding what species you want, dose by recommended product instructions to those values in for your tap water. When you do water changes, only replace the amount you took out with the tap water with additives. With each progressive water change the new water will replace it slowly bring it up to your parameters. I would maybe change only 20% of the water at a time and then replace it with equal volume of the treated water. This is assuming your tank is already stocked. If it isn't, then yeah dose directly. In the first few days, maybe once every 3 days, test your water again just to see its on the right track. Don't get to worried if its not the exact value you want, if its trending thats good. Nice and slow. I personally also keep the treated tap water in a contained with a cover, so I use the same batch for quite some time. Saves on prep time and on variation.

2) Not really. Substrates would probably have effects, especially mineral rich ones. Some nautral substances may do it as well. So you can always use these materials, test your water and then see if you need any changes. If you do, then follow 1).

3) After being established, I only check maybe once a month since I'm using the same batch of water to replace. Fish/Shrimp are healthy and breeding so I know they are happy. You can obviously test more, but I would say a nice balance between time/effort would be once a week when you do your water changes.