An exporters opinion.....

[Rastapus]

After the recent post regarding the Petricola Synodontis from a local breeder I felt it appropriate to expand on the subject of fish pricing in general.

I have touched on this topic in the past but what better arena then an aquatic specialty forum!
The fact is that aquarium fish as an imported "product" are a risky venture. I have always felt that the more hobbyists are aware of the pitfalls of the industry, the more educated their purchasing decision is. Having an overseas collection business, I feel I am well versed on the subject of what maintains a healthy market and what can send it spiraling downwards.
Lowballing product is one thing but when a store decides to lowball livestock, it does not generally end well. I have always been surprised at the BC market and it's instability of pricing. The larger the store in general, the more effort goes into the care of the animals simply because there is more at stake for one reason. That is not to say smaller stores don't put in the effort but overhead is a factor.

There are an unbelievable number of commercial farms, importers, wholesalers and dealers of aquarium fish. Although it is true that the closer you can get to a source, the lower the price will get however, freight is a major contributor to the cost of the fish. Also the swing in quality is a huge issue. Often IPU will choose the bigger fish or opt to purchase livestock at a higher price to be rewarded of the quality. Cheap fish are easy to find, cheap quality fish are not.
I sell overseas into a number of different markets and I can guarantee that the markets that focus on price and finding the cheapest fish are not my customers generally. Wholesalers or retailers that devote themselves to being the cheapest, generally don't make profit unless they cut their overhead to bare minimum, in doing so how do they care for their livestock? It is a vicious circle where nobody wins. The US market is a good example of this. With online sales and massive competition, price is the focus. Lately I have seen a few wholesalers putting more emphasis into quality but in these times it is an uphill battle. Unfortunately to many, a fish is still a fish. Does not seem to matter the condition or the health of the fish. I cant even fathom buying a fish online unless you have no other option IMO. I feel the aquatic market was healthier 10 years ago but lately it seems to be going the way the US went. Price first, quality second. The European market is the exact opposite of this. Several factors have helped, one being that import laws are very strict, thus weeding out those who think there is an opportunity for a quick buck to be made in their basement. Secondly stores as a whole are actually geared towards making a profit, I know, how strange........

I will give a direct example of what I am talking about to give everyone something to chew on before this turns into an essay. In Vanuatu our main staple fish is the Flame Angel, Centropyge loricula. I cannot collect enough of this fish to meet demand. Many of our customers build their orders around this fish. Now, that being said, is this a fish that you would want to sell cheap? Of course not because your stock will always be limited. In Australia the market has become similar to here where price has become the end all and must be as low as possible to beat out the competitor next door. So, wholesalers don't make much at all on this fish and constantly want more because their customers want more at this price. Everyone see where I am going here? Never mind the obvious fact that this would put pressure on the resource which yes, is coming from the wild. The same can be said of the Yellow tang, for those of you that remember this fish being sold for as low as $15.00 or less at one point. That was due to competition in Hawaii increasing and ONE collector thought it would be a good idea to sell Yellow Tangs at a ridiculously low price, other collectors had to follow through pressure from this and Yellow Tangs became the new damsel fish. Any guess on how many of those Yellow Tangs purchased then are still alive today? Since then, Yellow tangs increased in price on every level. This was largely due to pressure in Hawaii restricting areas in which collection could take place, thus affecting the amount available. Yellow Tangs were very popular before the price dropped, when the price dropped, more hobbyists purchased them based on price weather they had the appropriate aquarium or not, or hey, I will buy three, if two die I am still ahead - a philosophy I have never understood but hey. Now the Yellow Tang price is higher then it has ever been yet you do not see as many as you used to. This is a perfect example of how pricing can hurt the popularity of a fish. Most people would be willing to pay a higher price then when the Yellow Tang was $15.00 so why destroy the market for a short term gain which in the end is not a gain at all?

I better stop now or this will be the longest post in history. Just throwing this out there as a means of perspective and maybe enlighten a few hobbyists that don't fully understand the business as a whole and an LFS responsibility on many levels.

[AWW]

Insightful as always grant. You see it more and more, people just trying to make a quick buck. I believe, the more stores try ot emphasize on education before purchase, the demand for quality will go up. I see people come in all the time looking for fish to add to the tank, and all they look for is price. It takes a strong believer in quality over price to import quality fish, when it goes against the demand.

Lots of respect!

[gklaw]

Thank Grant for the great insight. If it is not from you, it will be hard pressed for me to read such a long post

Hope the attitude of hobbyists and reatailers are tuning into yours. We all know that is a difficult task. Unfortunately there are always new hobbyist who venture into the hobby and not ready for the associated costs.

The sadder thing as you have pointed out is that some retailer are trying to lock in customers by going with pricing. I think there need to be a healthy balance between getting good pricing for the customers and maintaining a healthy market for the retailers. It is hard as a consumer to turn away from a good deals all the time.

There also need to be a stronger appreciation from consumers that qualities in goods and services come with costs.

[Rastapus]

Insightful as always grant. You see it more and more, people just trying to make a quick buck. I believe, the more stores try ot emphasize on education before purchase, the demand for quality will go up. I see people come in all the time looking for fish to add to the tank, and all they look for is price. It takes a strong believer in quality over price to import quality fish, when it goes against the demand.

Lots of respect!

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[Rastapus]

Thank Grant for the great insight. If it is not from you, it will be hard pressed for me to read such a long post

Hope the attitude of hobbyists and retailers are tuning into yours. We all know that is a difficult task. Unfortunately there are always new hobbyist who venture into the hobby and not ready for the associated costs.

The sadder thing as you have pointed out is that some retailer are trying to lock in customers by going with pricing. I think there need to be a healthy balance between getting good pricing for the customers and maintaining a healthy market for the retailers. It is hard as a consumer to turn away from a good deals all the time.

There also need to be a stronger appreciation from consumers that qualities in goods and services come with costs.

Actually blame is more to the LFS, not the hobbyist. BC has likely the lowest aquarium hobby prices in Canada yet the highest cost of living. Does that make sense? Livestock will be a little cheaper here because of geography to the rest of the world. BC is the hub really for South Pacific and South east Asia fish. Of course, other areas like South America, Caribbean etc are closer to the east.
It is the lowballing activities of certain retailers that are destroying the hobby here as a whole. We can correlate this with the time line of recent years and how it has affected things. We are dealing with living animals, IMO these activities on pricing is very destructive on many levels. Why go through all the risk and responsibility to destroy the market? Makes absolutely no sense to me. The upcoming restrictions to importation of several FW species will likely help on the livestock side but as long as retailers continue to abuse price level, this hobby here will only get worse.

[neven]

i knew you'd get ranting about this grant :P next time though perhaps break up that monster of a paragraph a bit, i was tempted to skip to the bottom 2/3s through.

From what i've seen, many hobbyists move on from the cheapest source once they realize how much less the quality of products are

[Rastapus]

i knew you'd get ranting about this grant :P next time though perhaps break up that monster of a paragraph a bit, i was tempted to skip to the bottom 2/3s through.

Fixed it up there for ya.

From what i've seen, many hobbyists move on from the cheapest source once they realize how much less the quality of products are

Unless of course the product is being lowballed, then it is not a quality issue but an abusive retailer issue. Again, giving things away is great for the consumer, its the long term affects that are my issue. My example of the Yellow Tang for example has nothing to do with quality, just the long term affects of such low pricing tactics.

[fishygirl]

I must say, I disagree with some of the points you mentioned, Grant. Read my take on the Freshwater Chat area : A consumer's opinion...

[Reefee]

Yeah, I do agree with the post. Paying a little extra more for a fish that is sustainably harvested is beneficial. Since the fish do tend to fare better.

Just of curiosity though, although I do agree that the disparity in fish prices does have an affect on the quality, from an exporter's perspective, how come there is such discrepancy of the prices of dry goods in BC. For example a Hydor Koralia powerhead might be selling for $10 more at one LFS than it's competitor.

I would think that regardless of the item being salt, dry food, powerheads, etc. the wholesaler for different LFS should be the same and the quality won't be much different. So in that sense competition is beneficial for the industry as a whole to prevent outrageous prices of items.

[Raf]

economies of scale...