Angelfish Crossbreeding - Genetics Discussion

[Smiladon]

I thought it would be a good discussion to bring up.

I currently happen to have a 2 pairs of Angelfish who breed for me constantly.

First pair is 2 Gold Angelfish
Mom is Veiltail [V/N?]
Dad is a superveil [V/V]

From my experience 75% of the babies are [V/V] and 25% are [V/N] and all babies are gold

My 2nd pair has different parents from different sources
Mom is Marble [V/V]
Dad is Half-Black [V/V]

I know for a fact that 100% of the babies will be [V/V], but I am wondering how they will look like. Would half the babies look like mom and the other half like dad or am I looking at something totally different from both parents?
I am assuming that it definitely wont be like dad since half-black are linebred.

Please share your experiences and theories here.
Hopefully we can contribute to this in more of a general genetic related matter.

[Canadian_Aqua_Farm]

Interesting topic. I am by no means an expert in angelfish genetics but just from my observations over the years I am fairly certain that half black is recessive (h/h) so unless your female marble carries the gene you will not get any half blacks in the F1. Half black might also be enviromental. I have noticed half black fry won't colour up when stressed/overcrowded but the colour will appear once they are put under better conditions.

What is the underlying colour on your half black? Most commonly it is silver (+/+) although it could be carrying recessive genes like gold (+/g). There are many different combinations of genotypes for marble. You can narrow it down a bit by looking at the phenotype. Is it a dark marble, gold marble, silver marble?

If I was to take a stab in the dark at this just for fun I would guess that you will get a large percentage of silver marbles and possibly some silvers (carrying the gold gene). A very slight chance of another colour type showing up such as gold also exists. Of course I could be completely wrong here. I am basing this guess on the most likely genotypes for halfblack and marble.

You should definately give the cross a try and let us know what you get.

[Smiladon]

They already gave me 3 batches of babies (3rd batch will be free swimming in a 1-2 days).

I left the 2nd batch in the same tank with the parents and I still have a few left (culprit would be my German Blue Ram). As for the first batch, they are in their own tank and they are just starting to grow the vertical fins. Their color mostly resemble marble so far.

The half-black is a silver/half black, but he has a small spot in the body that is shiny green.

I've never had marbles before, so I am not sure about the 2 types, but the one I have is almost all black with few transparent fins and there is a small spot of gold and some silver.

I will get some pics up in a few days or maybe a video since that is much easier for me

[BigFatLyre]

Smiladon: Have you had enough experience with your Angels to see how much time it takes for your fry to colour up? Conformation is highly heritable and is the first thing to grade for; along with hybrid vigor and general robust behaviour.

[Smiladon]

well, from my experience, it depends on the type of angels.

My Gold veiltail fry are almost transparent/gold until 3.5months and then they get a shine on them.

The babies from the marble and half black were black with spots right from day 1. Over time they start showing more and more color. The babies I am growing right now are about 1.5-2 months old and they are all showing more gold patterns on their bodies. Their body size is 0.8cm (not including fins). They just started morphing into angelfish shape a few weeks ago and some are still in process.

I know I promised pics, but I have been too busy lately.

If you would like more information, I would gladly share what I know with you

[April]

theres a whole angelfish genetic chart on the net..its very cut and dry..not like discus etc..you can use the chart to figure it out. im sure the marble will be dominant.
http://theangelfishsociety.org/standards2.htm