[O.C.D Fishies]

So due to some crappy circumstances I have had to take my betta out of the 33 gallon so that I could help him get better by doing daily water changes. Currently he it in a one gallon no water movement, filter, nothing, but in the bathroom so he is warm.
In the 33 he never made a bubble nest, would once in awhile dart around but mostly hang out behind the heater. Now in the 1 gallon he has made a bubble nest. I know I have read that just because they make one doesn't mean that they are happy.
I honestly do not like keeping them in anything that small but now I am stating to wonder if a smaller solo tank would be better for him in the long run. I have my other one in a 5 gallon hex and he just loves it. (so I think) Or should I put him back in the big tank once things get sorted out? I will also be adding many plants to the 33 once everyone is good again.

I am also wondering if there is a way to clean plants that have been in a sick tank or can I never transfer them to a healthy tank???

 

[Scholz]

Ok... so i'm going to chime in here.

My female betta was in my cummunity 15 gal tank.... she hated it! Showed her stress bars all the time. Except after a feeding. as soon as i moved her.... she was loving life! Also the male betta has been in a 1.5 gallon planted bowl in my bathroom. He loves it and is very healhty and happy. When talking about small space and fish and animals i think it is important to understand some things with fish.

1. They aren't human.
2. In order for an fish to be happy they need a few things.
1. Space to call their own "territory" if you will.
2. Food.
3. Good Water Conditions

A fish doesn't care if it is in a puddle as long as their is food and enough room for it to establish territory then they are golden. Some fish will benifit from fast moiving water / more room than others.... Betta fish aren't one of them in my experience so far.

If he seems happyer / healthyer in the small tank chances are he is.

With the plants what sickness?

If you treat the tank with the plants in and the sickness goes away for good then the plants are fine. If not you could find out the life cycle of said sickness and isolate those plants for that length of time plus some for good measure!

then said plants should be good....

You can also do things like chemical baths....

I'd rather isolate...

Good luck!

 

[kelly528]

Well you have to bear in mind that without filter current bubblenests are left to just accumulate without being blown apart. I never saw a bubblenest from my dwarf gourami until I added some salvinia them BAM! Literally half the tank was covered in bubbles, blown under the salvinia which was holding them all together and protecting them from the filter current.

The second factor is that where there is no surface agitation, a protein film starts to accumulate. It glues bubbles together, and they don't dry out and pop as easily as the ones made purely from betta spit and water do.

The third thing is that bubblenesting is an instinct that has nothing to do with "happiness", abscence of stress, good water conditions etc. You can go to petcetera and see betta cups lined with bubbles, or observe a 10g aquarium in which the betta has never bothered.

Fourthly, it is somewhat dependent on personality. Some bettas are born more territorial, and some are meeker in nature. Some male bettas grow used ot the prescence of another male on the other side of a divider while some (like my guy) will go ballistic at their own reflection for the entirety of their lives.


So in short, it has been concluded that no, bubblenesting has little to nothing to do with the welfare of your betta. They are, however, intelligent creatures and you may have trouble keeping him occupied in such a small bowl, leading to tailbiting, glass surfing and othe problems. Further to that a 1g bowl needs a rigorous maintenance schedule which is a real PITA, espescially when you take off for a week and have to break it to your fish sitter that they need to clean his bowl every other day.

 

[Scholz]

Don't want to start a war.... kelly is right small tanks can suck....

Here's an example of one that doesn't

It's 1.5 gal bearly ever cleaned.... by cleaning I mean maybe once a month when i'm doing the 25 % weekly water change I might stick the turkey baster into the gravel and suck up a bit of waste....

Life is 1 betta fish 3 red ramshorn snails....

lots of surface area for the good bacteria... the plants keep the water clean... the waste is the food for the plants no doseing at all of anything...

Plants....

java moss
banana plant
two large vines aquatically rooted.
one small ivy cutting aquatically rooted
one creeping fig cutting hasn't rooted in a month nor has it died.
one lucky bamboo stick
one spider plant aquatically rooted

Betta is fed live foods and pellets...
Snails fed nothing... they live of waste and any algae that grows in the tank.

This is the easyest tank I have to take care of......

There is nothing wrong with the waste on the bottom of the tank. If i took it out the snails and the plants would starve...

I honestly think I could go once monthly with the water changes too... But I won't as It doesn't take much time to take 25% of the water out of this tank and add it back in.

 

[O.C.D Fishies]

Thank you both for your advice

Kelly - This tank is a temporary tank so that I can more easily perform daily water changes and hope that, that will take care of anything he may have. I have read with most things that if you correct the bad water conditions than most things will go away on there own. There is a bubbler in the tank but I felt it was to nosy and thought it might have been bothersome for him.

Like I mentioned I have my other one in 5 gallon hex by himself. This tank is planted with heater and filter. So he is not living in poor conditions.

I am concerned more about the fact that he was hiding to much. (So it seemed to me) in the 33 so I am not sure if he is happy or not. I have also read that bettas can be stressed in bigger tanks with other tank mates.

I am still not to sure what to do, but I have a bit of time to figure it out.

Brian - I think this may be an issue maybe of his own territory then. I don't think that he was ok in the big one, he was in the start swimming all over but he has slowly stopped doing that. I have been doing all the changes in the one gallon. I am not to fond of the smaller tanks myself. So he would get one no less than 3 gallons for himself.
I am hopeful though that is I plant the 33 he will have more places to hide out and he can establish his own territory. I just weeded my tanks out and I don't want to put up anymore.
By the way your betta home looks amazing, lol wanna come and set up mine. lol I can see there won't be any waste left in there. It is cute

Thank you both for your ideas and pointers. I am just going to have to see how things go for now and let him tell me how he is doing.

 

[kelly528]

Scholz.... LOL here I was only thinking about tanks with plants inside them.

I can see how a betta would be stressed in the average community tank. Not because of the size but because of other factors that go hand in hand with a community tank.

a) If your filtration is good enough for the community, its probably too strong for a (long finned) betta.
b) Bettas are territorial at times and he may not appreciate everybody wandering into his space.
c) Bettas appreciate densely densely densely planted tanks, a feature generally easier to achieve in a bowl or smaller tank.

You might have better luck if you plant the 33g up to the brim and include a couple of hideys (perhaps he'd go for one of those Zoo Med floating hollow logs for bettas?) or alternately just keep him in his own 5g or something.

 

[puffy]

I have a betta in a small container and another in a breeding container placed in a 33gal community tank (to isolate him from attacking other fishes including some female bettas). The females in the 33 gal. however have form a pecking order to be close to him. Both males do not show signs of a bubble nest.

 

[BettaGuy]

I agree with everyone here! Just to chime in...
I'm not sure what your 33 gallon looks like, but I was told by a breeder that a large tank with wide open spaces, a lack of hiding areas (plants/caves), as well as bright light can terrify bettas... however all bettas differ in personality and some may not mind where others might. And like Scholz says, some Bettas don't adapt to community tanks. Even in a bare small 2.5 tank with bright light, a friend's betta seemed quite stressed, darting everywhere, banging its head in the gravel, and hiding behind the filter. What I'm trying to say is that size may not necessarily be the issue.

In terms of nest building, (like you said, not necessarily anything to do with contentment though they do tend to come hand in hand) I understand some bettas are more inclined to do it whereas others require some stimulation. Some just never do. Stimulation can include the presence of floating leaves , warmer temperatures, outdoor weather ( they tend to build nests when it's about to rain ), water changes ( like rain, simulates the rain season making breeding more viable), a female betta in site, flaring at another male, etc. My halfmoon never built a nest until I let him flare at his reflection for 15 minutes a day. He started building a nest as he flared at his reflection going back and forth between puffing and bubbling. My crowntail never built a big nest until I introduced a floating leaf at the surface. Overnight he built one under and around it. Go figure.

Back to the main concern however! I agree with kelly that a smaller tank is not necessarily the best, with the drawback of more maintenance. In terms of the 33 gallon, my only concern is that is seems like your betta hides around the filter a lot. Darting out only occasionally only to return to the shelter of a filter to me is a red flag. Is the filter output too high? Are his tankmates bullying him? Bettas hail from densely vegetated, dimmer, stagnant waters that have little or no current, and your betta may be struggling with mobility, especially if he has a larger tail. In my personal experiences, bettas I have had kept have been very inquisitive of their surroundings, inspecting the tanks every nook and cranny, begging for food, or resting if they're totally bored.
My suggestion would be to observe his colour and interaction with you now in the 1 gallon, and when things are sorted out with the 33 gallon, put him back in there and see if his behaviour or colour change for the better. If he's stressed out, he may hide, become paler, dart in agitation, stop feeding, or make little movement. He may even show bars along his body. Should this happen, move him to an individual tank like your other betta.

I hope this helps and that your betta finds happiness

 

[Scholz]

Just courious as to what you think of the low maintenance tank that I gave example of?

Back to the main concern however! I agree with kelly that a smaller tank is not necessarily the best, with the drawback of more maintenance. In terms of the 33 gallon, my only concern is that is seems like your betta hides around the filter a lot. Darting out only occasionally only to return to the shelter of a filter to me is a red flag. Is the filter output too high? Are his tankmates bullying him? Bettas hail from densely vegetated, dimmer, stagnant waters that have little or no current, and your betta may be struggling with mobility, especially if he has a larger tail. In my personal experiences, bettas I have had kept have been very inquisitive of their surroundings, inspecting the tanks every nook and cranny, begging for food, or resting if they're totally bored.
My suggestion would be to observe his colour and interaction with you now in the 1 gallon, and when things are sorted out with the 33 gallon, put him back in there and see if his behaviour or colour change for the better. If he's stressed out, he may hide, become paler, dart in agitation, stop feeding, or make little movement. He may even show bars along his body. Should this happen, move him to an individual tank like your other betta.

I hope this helps and that your betta finds happiness

 

[Scholz]

I have a betta in a small container and another in a breeding container placed in a 33gal community tank (to isolate him from attacking other fishes including some female bettas). The females in the 33 gal. however have form a pecking order to be close to him. Both males do not show signs of a bubble nest.

I feel you want to pose a question....

Do you want your males to build a bubble nest?

 

[BettaGuy]

Just courious as to what you think of the low maintenance tank that I gave example of?

Hey! I think that is a really cool set up. I myself have 2 small tanks so I can definitely appreciate this betta home. I mean, as long as your fish is happy and water is clean and things are thriving, it's good right? If anything were to concern me, it would be the nitrate levels with doing 25% weekly water changes even with the plants. You didn't mention water readings, but if readings are good there shouldn't be any problems.

 

[Scholz]

water quality test better than any of my other tanks....

zero zero zero...

which isn't true but the lvls are lower than these kits can test...

 

[Morainy]

I've seen Scholz's betta garden and it does seem like an ideal home for a betta -- an interesting and healthy environment.

I have a generic 5 gallon Eclipse but it's functioning in a way that's not unlike Scholz's stunning wall garden. All the plants are aquatic and immersed at the moment as I don't have Scholz's knowledge of plants, but it's very heavily planted. It is a fairly self-sustaining environment. I don't fertilize the plants, they grow abundantly, and I don't run the filter because it was stressing the betta. It's heated because my place is much draftier and chillier than Scholz's, but other than that, it is a natural tank. When I test the water, it is always perfect. And my male betta is a very easy-going guy who takes Hikari food pellets right off my finger tips.

My long term goal is to create a setup that really is like Scholz's, with plants growing out of the tank. The two obstacles I face to doing that, other than a lack of a green thumb, are my cats and the need to heat any fish tank in my house because of temperature swings. A bowl is not as natural looking with a wire coming out of it!

 

[kelly528]

Curious, how to you heat the tank scholz?

 

[Scholz]

no heater.... no filter except the biological one...

 

[Atom]

Has your Betta ever jumped out of the tank, Scholz?

That is the only thing I would be paranoid about.

 

[Scholz]

Has your Betta ever jumped out of the tank, Scholz?

That is the only thing I would be paranoid about.

no there is a good inch and to inch and an half from the top.... also about an inch of lip as well....

He'd have to be a ninja...

 

[Morainy]

Scholz's betta bowl is bigger than it looks in the photo, quite a bit bigger. His betta is also very mellow, perhaps because he enjoys his view property.

I think that bettas are quite sociable -- with people, perhaps not with other bettas. My bettas are always at the front of the tank, looking out. I sometimes wonder if Joe is thinking, "My gosh, why don't these people tidy up?"

 

[Scholz]

Scholz's betta bowl is bigger than it looks in the photo, quite a bit bigger. His betta is also very mellow, perhaps because he enjoys his view property.

I think that bettas are quite sociable -- with people, perhaps not with other bettas. My bettas are always at the front of the tank, looking out. I sometimes wonder if Joe is thinking, "My gosh, why don't these people tidy up?"

I agree there are always very interested in what i'm doing...