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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All!

This maybe a very anticipated post as i know it has been asked of many many times before.

Up to this point we have only had Sponsor sub forums available to purchase for advertising. We have targeted mostly small-med sized business, retail stores, import/export professionals.

Over the years we have always had problems and many "gray" areas when it came to people selling fish. In many cases people were not aware of the rules or they just did not want to pay the sponsorship fee because of the cost. We have always done our best to try and enforce this but it just becomes too hard with the amount of people we have on the board.

Due to the reasons above i think we have come up with a GREAT solution. We have setup a "Breeder Classified subforum" located here :
Breeder Sponsored Classified - Aquarium Forum - Fish Forum - BCAQUARIA

This classified section will be used for people who are interested in selling stock that is not just the odd thing here and there.

This will be a SUBSCRIPTION BASED SERVICE which will cost 15$ per month and ONLY BREEDERS will be able to create threads in the BREEDER subforum.

The advantage to this is that people who could not afford a personalized subforum sponsorship will have somewhere they are allowed to post as well being able to pay month to month if they wish.

We hope that this will clear up any gray areas that we have had in the past and make everyone a little happier when it comes to being able to have a little breeder type business.

Additional Notes:

-Breeder subscription will come with a Title of "breeder"
-Pm storage increased to 250
-Also requested was to increase pictures per post which i will look into.

Interested? SIGN UP!

1) click on "user cp" in the main navigation (left side)

2 scroll down to the bottom and click on the link on the left side that says "paid subscriptions"

3)Under option 3 (BREEDER) choose your length of subscription (1,2,3 months) in the drop down box

4)click ORDER

5)confirm your order by clicking "order using paypal" .

Currently we are only accepting paypal orders.

Once you pay with paypal your usergroup will change to BREEDER and you will be allowed to post automatically into the BREEDER subforum here " Breeder Sponsored Classified - Aquarium Forum - Fish Forum - BCAQUARIA "

The same rules will apply that you will not allowed to post in regular classified sections as those sections are for personal ads.
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #2
I must comment that this is a TRIAL to see how it goes, if we decide to pull the plug on the thing for whatever reason you will be refunded for the remainder of time paid for.
 

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this will be great, i just noticed the posting.
finding things for sale and new updates will be a lot quicker. thank you
 

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This is great news indeed. I am sure we will have some more people back selling different types of fish. The monthly subscription is also really cool :)
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #5
Additional Notes:

-Breeder subscription will come with a Title of "breeder"
-Pm storage increased to 250
-Also requested was to increase pictures per post which i will look into.
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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2,235 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yeap, if you choose to do month to month then that's up to the person.

You can pay month to mont, 2 months in advanced, 3 months in advance. I can appreciate breeding might be only a 1 month venture at a time.. hence the month to month.

I agree, breeding can be smaller scale
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #8
if anyone has problems with the the paypal function of buying the subscription let me know as it has yet to be tested, it should work as it works exactly like the donator one works
 

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its a start... seems like maybe a bit of a cash grab too?
what exactly is the reason for the 15 dollar fee? dont users of the forum benefit by having access to cheap local fry + it lowers your fishies carbon footprints (no shipping)

i guess what im saying is its good just to see the fry back on the forums available to members at good prices rather than flushed or used as feeders, why do u need to make money off the breeders too? often those fry that get sold are only paying for the food (+ perhaps other things like buffers) that were required for growing their parents to maturity and then growing them.

i know a few local breeders that refuse to sell on BCA as it is because in their opinions the members here are cheap and dont want to pay what the fish are worth, personally i dont mind selling fry cheap if they go to a good home because naturally i will run out of room if i try to keep them all alive (and id rather not be responsible for their deaths), not sure about paying to sell them underpriced tho, its not like they make me any money.
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #10
its a start... seems like maybe a bit of a cash grab too?
what exactly is the reason for the 15 dollar fee? dont users of the forum benefit by having access to cheap local fry + it lowers your fishies carbon footprints (no shipping)

i guess what im saying is its good just to see the fry back on the forums available to members at good prices rather than flushed or used as feeders, why do u need to make money off the breeders too? often those fry that get sold are only paying for the food (+ perhaps other things like buffers) that were required for growing their parents to maturity and then growing them.
Good questions i'll try to answer the best i can. We have always had the problems of breeders competing with sponsors on the site.. hence we have a rule against breeders... we have always been asked for this option and now it's in place.

I dont think it's a cash grab, people have been requesting this. Does it supply extra income , sure does. Extra income means more for the site, more prizes for donators, more prizes for monthly giveaways, more prizes for staff members(keep in mind they are all volunteers and whenever i can i love to show them my appreciation)

Members of the site benefit from cheap fry sure.. but why would sponsors stick around when they are being undercut on every fish? what's the benefit of them to stay.. not much, there goes prizes and draws etc. What point do we draw the line at.. what stops breeders from every province signing up and selling via shipping.

I think the price is pretty fair to be honest with you. You raise 100 fry, sell for 10$ each... and your only paying 15$ per month for a target audience of nearly 100%.. seems like a steal to me.

People often get mixed up with the term breeder.. There is a breeder.. and a hobbiest.

-Breeder in my definition is someone who sets up multiple tanks.. breeds.. sells.... breeds... sells..
-Hobbiest... someone who is raising fry for the first time.. maybe does it 2 times a year... vs a breeder who is constantly breeding fish in multiple tanks and always has fry available. Someone who has 1 shrimp tank setup.. and is selling cherry shrimp for 2$ for the 75 that they have.. is fine.. that's cool.. it's going to take alot more time then 4 weeks to start doing it all over again.

Instead of punishing someone who is a breeder and now allowing them to post classified ads on bca.. now we are embracing it and giving them the option to pay a small fee to use our board to sell there stock. I'm just giving an alternate option.

i know a few local breeders that refuse to sell on BCA as it is because in their opinions the members here are cheap and dont want to pay what the fish are worth, personally i dont mind selling fry cheap if they go to a good home because naturally i will run out of room if i try to keep them all alive (and id rather not be responsible for their deaths), not sure about paying to sell them underpriced tho, its not like they make me any money.
They refused to sell on bca because our members are cheap or because it was against our site rules before yesterday. You cannot honestly tell me all 3000 members on BCA are cheap.. because i could put a big list of members together that are surely not in that category.

That's the other thing i dont get... "they refused to sell on bca because they are cheap", yet they dont dont want to pay to become a sponsor..because.. they want something for free.. seems a little odd to me personally.

Simply put.. we have put together a "Service" aimed at breeders.. if they choose to utilize this option i welcome them with open arms and hope they enjoy it.. if not then no worry.. i'm not forcing anyone to do anything
 

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Good questions i'll try to answer the best i can. We have always had the problems of breeders competing with sponsors on the site.. hence we have a rule against breeders... we have always been asked for this option and now it's in place.

I dont think it's a cash grab, people have been requesting this. Does it supply extra income , sure does. Extra income means more for the site, more prizes for donators, more prizes for monthly giveaways, more prizes for staff members(keep in mind they are all volunteers and whenever i can i love to show them my appreciation)

Members of the site benefit from cheap fry sure.. but why would sponsors stick around when they are being undercut on every fish? what's the benefit of them to stay.. not much, there goes prizes and draws etc. What point do we draw the line at.. what stops breeders from every province signing up and selling via shipping.

I think the price is pretty fair to be honest with you. You raise 100 fry, sell for 10$ each... and your only paying 15$ per month for a target audience of nearly 100%.. seems like a steal to me.

People often get mixed up with the term breeder.. There is a breeder.. and a hobbiest.

-Breeder in my definition is someone who sets up multiple tanks.. breeds.. sells.... breeds... sells..
-Hobbiest... someone who is raising fry for the first time.. maybe does it 2 times a year... vs a breeder who is constantly breeding fish in multiple tanks and always has fry available..
as long as not too many of the hobbiests get lumped in as breeders so we dont end up with less fry available on the forums as a result of this

Simply put.. we have put together a "Service" aimed at sponsors..
ah thats why i was so confused!
i thought the forum was a place meant for hobbiests to share their experience with the hobby, not a place meant to gather people so that sponsors could be charged to advertise to the hobbiests.

tho it makes sense
15 sponsors x 380/year - 475 per month, give 100 of that back to the sponsors via gift certificates that will buy merchandise with a profit margin attached to it, and your left with 375/month beer money.. not bad, doesnt even include the advertisements or donators.

might as well charge for people to sell used equipment too since that also competes with sponsors
 

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Have you ever run a forum mferko? I don't know about bcaquaria but simplydiscus the more members.pics,bandwidth and the more secure upgrades the more costly. They
PAy about 8 k a year for server, forum upgrades and licensing, insurance etc etc etc. It's not all free money. Without sponsors there wouldn't be a forum. Yes the sponsors want your money. Especially the basement sellers who don't have business licenses. A captive audience. Why else do they spend their whole day on here posting. It's like a full-time job. But they pay for advertising. Only place advertising is free is craigslist and buysell .even that if you post a lot you get told you need to pay. Why shouldn't breeders pay for a captive audience? Not to mention the time Sean and the mods put in moderating.
I like the idea. Easy way to find homebred fish and encourages breeders as they have somewhere to sell them.
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #13
as long as not too many of the hobbiests get lumped in as breeders so we dont end up with less fry available on the forums as a result of this

ah thats why i was so confused!
i thought the forum was a place meant for hobbiests to share their experience with the hobby, not a place meant to gather people so that sponsors could be charged to advertise to the hobbiests.

tho it makes sense
15 sponsors x 380/year - 475 per month, give 100 of that back to the sponsors via gift certificates that will buy merchandise with a profit margin attached to it, and your left with 375/month beer money.. not bad, doesnt even include the advertisements or donators.

might as well charge for people to sell used equipment too since that also competes with sponsors
My typo "service aimed at breeders"

If you dont like the way i run the forum your welcome to leave, not sure why your attacking what i'm doing, i thought this would be a welcomed addition. Your free to start your own forum if you want and run it the way you want.Hell.. i'll even help you install the forum, set it up for you, LINK to you.. and provide your hosting. I take no hard feelings about it there is always the 1 person that has something negative to say about a positive.

might as well charge for people to sell used equipment too since that also competes with sponsors
If they were buying from eheim/fluval/rena at cost and reselling at retail i probably would

People have whatever choices they want, again.. i have never forced anyone to do anything. If they want to use the services provided... then by all means i welcome them(keep in mind we ARE a aquatic community). OR they can go to craigslist and post for free and get a million questions... never know who they are really dealing with (itrader is handy isnt it), have people blow you off time after time after time... etc etc etc

tho it makes sense
15 sponsors x 380/year - 475 per month, give 100 of that back to the sponsors via gift certificates that will buy merchandise with a profit margin attached to it, and your left with 375/month beer money.. not bad, doesnt even include the advertisements or donators.
show me another site that has no advertising, no sponsors...and that gives away prizes like we do. Hell.. show me another site that GIVES away stuff like we do on a regular basis.. Show me another fish forum that has the ability to take his WHOLE staff out to dinner... WITH a +1... and pay the 600$ bill, just to show the appreciation and work done well that has no sponsors, and no advertising.... Show me another forum that donates to the cancer society when a members asks for help in there charity drive.....etc etc etc
 

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Good on you Shawn. I haven't had any breeding happen for me, but it will be nice to see what others come up with. And having a resonable fee for posting their efforts, especially when they are geared towards breeding regularly doesn't seem like an issue to me.

This forum is run very well IMO, and is the one I return to time after time. I feel the amount of exposure a breeder can get here would far outweigh the cost of being part of the program. Plus, you have made the allowance for the one time breeders as well.

All in all, I think this program is weel thought out and doesn't unduly restrict any one group or another. Sponsors have their section, breeders have theirs. The rest of us can only benifit by there being more local offerings.

Thanks for your hard work on this, it is appreciated.
 

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Well, I guess if people didn't want to pay, Craigslist, Kijii, etc, are all free online sales.

I can't imagine being asked to get a breeder subscription if you are selling $20 worth of fish a month. But if you are selling hundreds a month, for even one month, then you're making a profit from this site. Somebody's gotta pay the bills. Google Plecofanatics if you want to see a site that was run improperly and collapsed because the forum owner was failed to financially plan for the proper use of the site. It was a very useful site that many pleco keeper lamented the loss of. I'm sure that's not the only one either, just one that I know of.
 

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Just to make it clear, am I right in thinking that a one time or occassional breeder (a hobbyist whose fish have spawned) can offer fish without paying for Breeder status? For instance, I have some livebearers who are overpopulating their tank. Can I sell the surplus?
 

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Dark Lord Owner
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Discussion Starter #17
Just to make it clear, am I right in thinking that a one time or occassional breeder (a hobbyist whose fish have spawned) can offer fish without paying for Breeder status? For instance, I have some livebearers who are overpopulating their tank. Can I sell the surplus?
Yes, Correct

Most people know if they are titled as "breeders", if your unsure just post as you would normally. We usually track a "breeders" thread list over weeks.. we are pretty good at identifying people who are in the hobby to breed vs someone who just spawns here and there. We would never ban someone on the spot, we send messages trying to confirm, etc.
 

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when i joined it was not because i wanted free prizes it was because after selling some fry on kijiji the buyer told me to join bca because thats where locals go to sell their livestock - perhaps your right and i should create a site with that intention.
maybe im the only one voicing concern but ive received a couple pm's and an email from people that agree

where exactly are you going to draw the line? how many $7 PFR shrimps a month can someone sell? how many $12 crystal red or blacks?
what if i only have one large tank but doing what africans do they are constantly breeding and i constantly have fry for sale, am i a breeder or hobbiest?
what if we choose to just give our fry away for free for example livebearers, still bad for sponsors but ok?
what about constantly selling plants?
can you please elaborate?

i think http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/sale...s-if-you-see-something-good-cl-post-here-294/ is going to become more popular than ever
 

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Shawn is actually spending a lot of money for this forum than other forums. It is not just about money grabbing...

I don't know about other people, but we in Canadian Aquatics pays the same amount of taxes and GST and HST just like other retail stores but we mainly aim at more of internet sale than anything. A front end store for us will benefit us but not as much. And as a result of that, the customers do enjoy the saving...

With that said, we still have no problem sponsoring here as we believe we should as Shawn in BCA provides us a good way to advertise our fish. We don't do posting about new shipment, or ask other people to post our new fish or products, or pretend we are breeding small plecos to sell as breeder. If our customers choose to do that, or show off their fish from us and mentioning our name, that is up to them. We never tell any of our customers to post and show off our fish in other website/forums. We believe in running our business as honestly as possible. That is why you will never find my post on other forum about me selling fish or posting photos of new fish as I don't want to be called trying to do free advertising...

Sponsorship is more than breeder cost. But we as sponsor do get a better service from Shawn, bigger inbox, more photos in thread, our own section, and a place that we can share our photos of exotics... It is really a small price to pay. Best of all, it is a business expense so it becomes a write off for us. What more can we ask for...

Just check out how much Shawn did for BCA. He always trying to put a new plug-in, new section, and even give out free space for the two hobbyists society. I don't see any other place do this kind of thing.

Another thought about sponsors, I don't know how long you have been keeping African cichlids... But long ago when I first bought in the very first group of Zaire Kitumba, you have to pay double or even triple of that in any LFS IF THEY HAVE THEM. In a way, it does benefit more to the end user than anything...
 

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$15 is no big deal.

Adding the breeder's list just seems like a natural evolution of the site to me.

Running my own forum, however, I can tell you that the costs are not much. Bandwith has pretty much collapsed in price. Thus, I do not think BCAquaria costs more than a few hundred bucks a year to run; it is, however, a lot of WORK to run a forum and Shawn and the mods deserve to be PAID for this. For that reason, $15 a month in return for the breeder advertising is a small price to pay I think.
 
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