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Breeder Classified Section Opens

11K views 49 replies 25 participants last post by  Nicklfire 
#1 ·
Hello All!

This maybe a very anticipated post as i know it has been asked of many many times before.

Up to this point we have only had Sponsor sub forums available to purchase for advertising. We have targeted mostly small-med sized business, retail stores, import/export professionals.

Over the years we have always had problems and many "gray" areas when it came to people selling fish. In many cases people were not aware of the rules or they just did not want to pay the sponsorship fee because of the cost. We have always done our best to try and enforce this but it just becomes too hard with the amount of people we have on the board.

Due to the reasons above i think we have come up with a GREAT solution. We have setup a "Breeder Classified subforum" located here :
Breeder Sponsored Classified - Aquarium Forum - Fish Forum - BCAQUARIA

This classified section will be used for people who are interested in selling stock that is not just the odd thing here and there.

This will be a SUBSCRIPTION BASED SERVICE which will cost 15$ per month and ONLY BREEDERS will be able to create threads in the BREEDER subforum.

The advantage to this is that people who could not afford a personalized subforum sponsorship will have somewhere they are allowed to post as well being able to pay month to month if they wish.

We hope that this will clear up any gray areas that we have had in the past and make everyone a little happier when it comes to being able to have a little breeder type business.

Additional Notes:

-Breeder subscription will come with a Title of "breeder"
-Pm storage increased to 250
-Also requested was to increase pictures per post which i will look into.

Interested? SIGN UP!

1) click on "user cp" in the main navigation (left side)

2 scroll down to the bottom and click on the link on the left side that says "paid subscriptions"

3)Under option 3 (BREEDER) choose your length of subscription (1,2,3 months) in the drop down box

4)click ORDER

5)confirm your order by clicking "order using paypal" .

Currently we are only accepting paypal orders.

Once you pay with paypal your usergroup will change to BREEDER and you will be allowed to post automatically into the BREEDER subforum here " Breeder Sponsored Classified - Aquarium Forum - Fish Forum - BCAQUARIA "

The same rules will apply that you will not allowed to post in regular classified sections as those sections are for personal ads.
 
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#7 ·
Yeap, if you choose to do month to month then that's up to the person.

You can pay month to mont, 2 months in advanced, 3 months in advance. I can appreciate breeding might be only a 1 month venture at a time.. hence the month to month.

I agree, breeding can be smaller scale
 
#21 ·
You can pay month to mont, 2 months in advanced, 3 months in advance. I can appreciate breeding might be only a 1 month venture at a time.. hence the month to month.
Hey Shawn,

So basically when a breeder needs to thin out their breeding stock. They can subscribe for 1 month and sell their stock (which may only only take 1-2 weeks but 15 bucks a month is nothing if you plan to sell example 50 of something for 1.25 or more) and the months after as you build back your stock you don't need to subscribe until your stock builds up again and your ready to sell. Am I getting this right?
 
#9 · (Edited)
its a start... seems like maybe a bit of a cash grab too?
what exactly is the reason for the 15 dollar fee? dont users of the forum benefit by having access to cheap local fry + it lowers your fishies carbon footprints (no shipping)

i guess what im saying is its good just to see the fry back on the forums available to members at good prices rather than flushed or used as feeders, why do u need to make money off the breeders too? often those fry that get sold are only paying for the food (+ perhaps other things like buffers) that were required for growing their parents to maturity and then growing them.

i know a few local breeders that refuse to sell on BCA as it is because in their opinions the members here are cheap and dont want to pay what the fish are worth, personally i dont mind selling fry cheap if they go to a good home because naturally i will run out of room if i try to keep them all alive (and id rather not be responsible for their deaths), not sure about paying to sell them underpriced tho, its not like they make me any money.
 
#10 ·
its a start... seems like maybe a bit of a cash grab too?
what exactly is the reason for the 15 dollar fee? dont users of the forum benefit by having access to cheap local fry + it lowers your fishies carbon footprints (no shipping)

i guess what im saying is its good just to see the fry back on the forums available to members at good prices rather than flushed or used as feeders, why do u need to make money off the breeders too? often those fry that get sold are only paying for the food (+ perhaps other things like buffers) that were required for growing their parents to maturity and then growing them.
Good questions i'll try to answer the best i can. We have always had the problems of breeders competing with sponsors on the site.. hence we have a rule against breeders... we have always been asked for this option and now it's in place.

I dont think it's a cash grab, people have been requesting this. Does it supply extra income , sure does. Extra income means more for the site, more prizes for donators, more prizes for monthly giveaways, more prizes for staff members(keep in mind they are all volunteers and whenever i can i love to show them my appreciation)

Members of the site benefit from cheap fry sure.. but why would sponsors stick around when they are being undercut on every fish? what's the benefit of them to stay.. not much, there goes prizes and draws etc. What point do we draw the line at.. what stops breeders from every province signing up and selling via shipping.

I think the price is pretty fair to be honest with you. You raise 100 fry, sell for 10$ each... and your only paying 15$ per month for a target audience of nearly 100%.. seems like a steal to me.

People often get mixed up with the term breeder.. There is a breeder.. and a hobbiest.

-Breeder in my definition is someone who sets up multiple tanks.. breeds.. sells.... breeds... sells..
-Hobbiest... someone who is raising fry for the first time.. maybe does it 2 times a year... vs a breeder who is constantly breeding fish in multiple tanks and always has fry available. Someone who has 1 shrimp tank setup.. and is selling cherry shrimp for 2$ for the 75 that they have.. is fine.. that's cool.. it's going to take alot more time then 4 weeks to start doing it all over again.

Instead of punishing someone who is a breeder and now allowing them to post classified ads on bca.. now we are embracing it and giving them the option to pay a small fee to use our board to sell there stock. I'm just giving an alternate option.

i know a few local breeders that refuse to sell on BCA as it is because in their opinions the members here are cheap and dont want to pay what the fish are worth, personally i dont mind selling fry cheap if they go to a good home because naturally i will run out of room if i try to keep them all alive (and id rather not be responsible for their deaths), not sure about paying to sell them underpriced tho, its not like they make me any money.
They refused to sell on bca because our members are cheap or because it was against our site rules before yesterday. You cannot honestly tell me all 3000 members on BCA are cheap.. because i could put a big list of members together that are surely not in that category.

That's the other thing i dont get... "they refused to sell on bca because they are cheap", yet they dont dont want to pay to become a sponsor..because.. they want something for free.. seems a little odd to me personally.

Simply put.. we have put together a "Service" aimed at breeders.. if they choose to utilize this option i welcome them with open arms and hope they enjoy it.. if not then no worry.. i'm not forcing anyone to do anything
 
#11 · (Edited)
Good questions i'll try to answer the best i can. We have always had the problems of breeders competing with sponsors on the site.. hence we have a rule against breeders... we have always been asked for this option and now it's in place.

I dont think it's a cash grab, people have been requesting this. Does it supply extra income , sure does. Extra income means more for the site, more prizes for donators, more prizes for monthly giveaways, more prizes for staff members(keep in mind they are all volunteers and whenever i can i love to show them my appreciation)

Members of the site benefit from cheap fry sure.. but why would sponsors stick around when they are being undercut on every fish? what's the benefit of them to stay.. not much, there goes prizes and draws etc. What point do we draw the line at.. what stops breeders from every province signing up and selling via shipping.

I think the price is pretty fair to be honest with you. You raise 100 fry, sell for 10$ each... and your only paying 15$ per month for a target audience of nearly 100%.. seems like a steal to me.

People often get mixed up with the term breeder.. There is a breeder.. and a hobbiest.

-Breeder in my definition is someone who sets up multiple tanks.. breeds.. sells.... breeds... sells..
-Hobbiest... someone who is raising fry for the first time.. maybe does it 2 times a year... vs a breeder who is constantly breeding fish in multiple tanks and always has fry available..
as long as not too many of the hobbiests get lumped in as breeders so we dont end up with less fry available on the forums as a result of this

Simply put.. we have put together a "Service" aimed at sponsors..
ah thats why i was so confused!
i thought the forum was a place meant for hobbiests to share their experience with the hobby, not a place meant to gather people so that sponsors could be charged to advertise to the hobbiests.

tho it makes sense
15 sponsors x 380/year - 475 per month, give 100 of that back to the sponsors via gift certificates that will buy merchandise with a profit margin attached to it, and your left with 375/month beer money.. not bad, doesnt even include the advertisements or donators.

might as well charge for people to sell used equipment too since that also competes with sponsors
 
#12 ·
Have you ever run a forum mferko? I don't know about bcaquaria but simplydiscus the more members.pics,bandwidth and the more secure upgrades the more costly. They
PAy about 8 k a year for server, forum upgrades and licensing, insurance etc etc etc. It's not all free money. Without sponsors there wouldn't be a forum. Yes the sponsors want your money. Especially the basement sellers who don't have business licenses. A captive audience. Why else do they spend their whole day on here posting. It's like a full-time job. But they pay for advertising. Only place advertising is free is craigslist and buysell .even that if you post a lot you get told you need to pay. Why shouldn't breeders pay for a captive audience? Not to mention the time Sean and the mods put in moderating.
I like the idea. Easy way to find homebred fish and encourages breeders as they have somewhere to sell them.
 
#14 ·
Good on you Shawn. I haven't had any breeding happen for me, but it will be nice to see what others come up with. And having a resonable fee for posting their efforts, especially when they are geared towards breeding regularly doesn't seem like an issue to me.

This forum is run very well IMO, and is the one I return to time after time. I feel the amount of exposure a breeder can get here would far outweigh the cost of being part of the program. Plus, you have made the allowance for the one time breeders as well.

All in all, I think this program is weel thought out and doesn't unduly restrict any one group or another. Sponsors have their section, breeders have theirs. The rest of us can only benifit by there being more local offerings.

Thanks for your hard work on this, it is appreciated.
 
#15 ·
Well, I guess if people didn't want to pay, Craigslist, Kijii, etc, are all free online sales.

I can't imagine being asked to get a breeder subscription if you are selling $20 worth of fish a month. But if you are selling hundreds a month, for even one month, then you're making a profit from this site. Somebody's gotta pay the bills. Google Plecofanatics if you want to see a site that was run improperly and collapsed because the forum owner was failed to financially plan for the proper use of the site. It was a very useful site that many pleco keeper lamented the loss of. I'm sure that's not the only one either, just one that I know of.
 
#16 ·
Just to make it clear, am I right in thinking that a one time or occassional breeder (a hobbyist whose fish have spawned) can offer fish without paying for Breeder status? For instance, I have some livebearers who are overpopulating their tank. Can I sell the surplus?
 
#17 ·
Yes, Correct

Most people know if they are titled as "breeders", if your unsure just post as you would normally. We usually track a "breeders" thread list over weeks.. we are pretty good at identifying people who are in the hobby to breed vs someone who just spawns here and there. We would never ban someone on the spot, we send messages trying to confirm, etc.
 
#18 · (Edited)
when i joined it was not because i wanted free prizes it was because after selling some fry on kijiji the buyer told me to join bca because thats where locals go to sell their livestock - perhaps your right and i should create a site with that intention.
maybe im the only one voicing concern but ive received a couple pm's and an email from people that agree

where exactly are you going to draw the line? how many $7 PFR shrimps a month can someone sell? how many $12 crystal red or blacks?
what if i only have one large tank but doing what africans do they are constantly breeding and i constantly have fry for sale, am i a breeder or hobbiest?
what if we choose to just give our fry away for free for example livebearers, still bad for sponsors but ok?
what about constantly selling plants?
can you please elaborate?

i think http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/sale...s-if-you-see-something-good-cl-post-here-294/ is going to become more popular than ever
 
#19 ·
Shawn is actually spending a lot of money for this forum than other forums. It is not just about money grabbing...

I don't know about other people, but we in Canadian Aquatics pays the same amount of taxes and GST and HST just like other retail stores but we mainly aim at more of internet sale than anything. A front end store for us will benefit us but not as much. And as a result of that, the customers do enjoy the saving...

With that said, we still have no problem sponsoring here as we believe we should as Shawn in BCA provides us a good way to advertise our fish. We don't do posting about new shipment, or ask other people to post our new fish or products, or pretend we are breeding small plecos to sell as breeder. If our customers choose to do that, or show off their fish from us and mentioning our name, that is up to them. We never tell any of our customers to post and show off our fish in other website/forums. We believe in running our business as honestly as possible. That is why you will never find my post on other forum about me selling fish or posting photos of new fish as I don't want to be called trying to do free advertising...

Sponsorship is more than breeder cost. But we as sponsor do get a better service from Shawn, bigger inbox, more photos in thread, our own section, and a place that we can share our photos of exotics... It is really a small price to pay. Best of all, it is a business expense so it becomes a write off for us. What more can we ask for...

Just check out how much Shawn did for BCA. He always trying to put a new plug-in, new section, and even give out free space for the two hobbyists society. I don't see any other place do this kind of thing.

Another thought about sponsors, I don't know how long you have been keeping African cichlids... But long ago when I first bought in the very first group of Zaire Kitumba, you have to pay double or even triple of that in any LFS IF THEY HAVE THEM. In a way, it does benefit more to the end user than anything...
 
#20 ·
$15 is no big deal.

Adding the breeder's list just seems like a natural evolution of the site to me.

Running my own forum, however, I can tell you that the costs are not much. Bandwith has pretty much collapsed in price. Thus, I do not think BCAquaria costs more than a few hundred bucks a year to run; it is, however, a lot of WORK to run a forum and Shawn and the mods deserve to be PAID for this. For that reason, $15 a month in return for the breeder advertising is a small price to pay I think.
 
#24 ·
Not that I am a breeder, or sponsor but just interested in this thread. I would classify myself as a hobbyist since I only sell some plants or shrimps, fish every now and then when they over populate tanks.

Though I think there needs to be ground rules and classification to what is a sponsor and what is a breeder.

For example does a breeder have an Internet business? A website that sells equipment/livestock/plants? Is a basement breeder a sponsor? Does a sponsor have to have a store front? A registered name/trade name is a sponsor or breeder? If a breeder is on a month to month basis for 1-2 years, that is steady revenue, should it be converted to a sponsor? And if some have employees/partners are they breeders or sponsors?

In my opinion a sponsor and breeder is really a grey area and rules need to be established.

I really like BCA and would like to see something good turns out in shawn's efforts.
 
#25 ·
Yes I think that is the tricky grey area.

Also, say you are the type of hobbyist/breeder as above. Once every 2 months you might have an overstock of shrimpies and need to sell. So you pay for the month you are selling on the "Breeder Thread". What happens to your posts when you don't pay for the month thereafter? I personally think it should get deleted since if not, essentially you pay for one month of "advertising" and posting on a premium thread, but that post lasts beyond that one month period so anyone can PM directly to inquire.
 
#26 ·
One thing that everyone needs to realize is that this is a "new" feature we are adding and it will need some tweeking as far as rules go as we go on.

In my mind a breeder is someone who has multiple tanks setup for the sole purpose of breeding to resell. With the new breeder section there is no partnerships allowed, one subscription for one member.

A sponsor would be someone who is running a business, pays taxes on what they sell, has a storefront or internet store. With the sponsorship you are allowed to do way more and have a partner.

A hobbyist is someone who may have a few tanks and once in a blue moon something happens to breed so you decide to sell off the extra stock(no fee)

This is where our jobs get to be more involved. Obviously if you are a hobbyist and
and your over run with guppy's you can post them for sale here without paying the breeder fee. We just have to keep an eye out for those that end up doing this often, as if your selling fish often then obviously your a breeder of said fish and not just a hobbyist.

As for this whole thing being a cash grab thats a joke. Shawn in putting this in to further move the site forward and this is something that members have been asking to be put in place. Ya sure there are lots of forums out there where you don't have to pay to sell stuff but again as Shawn stated earlier, not too many forums out there give away stuff like we do. What I find funny is we are essentially providing a free forum for the everyday hobbyist and people gotta complain. If the owners of the site happen to make a couple extra dollars then so be it, they deserve it. Some really don't have a clue just how much work Shawn does behind the scenes. Now as far as I know the majority of the revenue generated goes back into the site through prizes and whatnot and the dinner the mods get once a year(which has only been the last 2 years) and heck we deserve it too, being a mod does take up our time and we do volunteer that time. We do our best to try and keep the majority happy while enforcing the rules of the board.

Now back to the new breeder program, as you can see from some of the posts here it seems to me that the majority thinks this is a good idea for the site and the members that are on the fence or against it need to understand that this is a new feature and it will need tweeking as we go along and we will do our best to make sure all concerns and ideas are heard. For those that are dead set against it and call it a cash grab and whatnot and say they are unhappy here then they do know where the door is and don't let it hit ya on the way out. When moving forward your always gonna leave someone behind
 
#28 ·
Just wanted to take an opportunity to thank Shawn for all his efforts and time spent both developing and improving BCAquaria. I am a little disappointed to see members challenging this new idea, let alone breaking down what earnings may or may not be generated from such an idea. I see no problem charging to advertise fish for sale. Breeders do so both for interest and usually for some sort of monetary return, even if it is just to feed their hobby. Individual intentions are irrelevant, selling something that someone produces is a business.
 
#32 ·
so if someone breeds but also has a website and offers shipping to anywhere in Canada are they a breeder or are they a sponsor, because thats where my complaint came from in the complaints section. There are a few who seem to slide under the radar and have all the above and still dont pay anything. way more then my 2 cents, sorry if it seems like Im bitching about the services being offered, shawn.
 
#34 ·
Seems like a great service to me. Before breeders complained about sponsorship costs being too heavy for the cyclic nature of their operations. With the way this service is charged that eliminates that excuse.

I in no way see it as a cash grab. Websites may seem cheap to some, but when a site's popularity grows, so does the demand on the server so you'll need much improved servers to host your sites and that cost is a premium.

On top of that sponsors do exist on this site so it seems fair the smaller scale breeders should have some sort of fee. The way i see it if you sell 30 fish in a month, that is $0.50 a fish. If that cuts into your profit margins then you need to invest in better breed stock, or learn how to not undercut the crap out of your competition.

What it really seems like to me is the same people complaining. It comes down to people not wanting a hand in their pocket (greed). They avoid the tax man so they naturally want to avoid any form of fees. As nicklfire said, nothing is stopping you from using craigslist or kiji. As for people getting away with it already on the forums. They hardly do. The livestock section is mostly used for people selling fish because they are leaving the hobby, downsizing tanks, or switching species. Very few sell fish they breed, and the majority of those who do sell fish that are $3 in a local fish shop, hardly the breeds that breeders should focus on.

As for suggestions i would say breeder subscriptions should not be allowed to link/advertise their website in their signature or in the posts if they have a breeding site set up. That should define the gray area between sponsorship and breeder.
 
#36 · (Edited)
maybe im just oblivious to some of the larger breeders out there i can only think of one, if theyre making alot of money then sure they should pay for advertising... i just dont want to be lumped in with them as a hobbiest with only 1 tank that will likely have lots of fry being produced, and not in spurts, small numbers every month, its the nature of the fish. and with the amnt of food these pigs eat and the amount of buffers im using i wont make anything, i might recover some of what i spend maintaining the colony.

similiar to petah's cyps, 5 fry once a month, its constant but not exactly 100 fry x 10 bucks each
 
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