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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I was doing some reading about Fly River Turtles as I am interested in getting one. I came across something quiet peculiar. It says that fly river turtles have only been bred on 3 occasions and the offspring were never sold. The article continued to explain that the only way these turtles have ever reached pet stores is by hunting them down and catching eggs in Indonesia, incubating them and then smuggling them out of the country. This is ilegal in Indonesia, but once out of Indonesia is it ilegal to sell these species in Canada?

Anyways, I am still interested in getting one, but, I am just concerned about the legal repurcussions associated with purchasing a pet that was ilegally brought to Canada.

Do you know the history of the one in the Burnaby showtank? I have had no luck finding a place to get a young one from...I saw one at King Eds but it had a horrible pink flakey skin rash on its shell and it was still $400 :(

Best Regards,
Aarman
 

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They are illegal to bring into the country.
Once they are in the country I haven't heard of anyone owning one having a legal problem with owning it.
They are offered for sale on this board quite often.
 

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There are many Fly River Turtles popping up around town lately, I have no idea where they are coming from exactly. The Fly River Turtles we have had in the past and the one in the show tank were purchased within Canada. This is the reason the ones we have had have all been medium to larger size. I am assuming they were no longer kept by hobbyists and traded in to my supplier. They are illegal to import into Canada and are readily exported from Indonesia.
Legally if the turtle is purchased within Canada there are no repercussions as the animal is already here. Ethically, the numbers of FRT showing up around town is very curious. We have only had 4 available to us over a 4 year period.
Based on the fact that these turtles are very hard to come by, they are worth a lot of money due to the rarity of the animal in Canada. Obviously the health of the animal is key however they are fairly easy to medicate and very hardy if kept in the right conditions. They are also hard water turtles and if the aquarium is poorly buffered, skin infections usually follow. I hope this answered your question.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thank You. Since I am only 17, I don't really want to get into dealings with a direct supplier, so I'll keep a lookout for a secondary supplier. I would much rather prefer a hatchling to start off, but unfortunately that would probably involve some sort of contact with smugglers :p
I'll stick with my YBS
 

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Turtlez,
Also keep in mind the demands of keeping such a turtle. They get very large and need a lot of space. they also grow quickly and with any turtle there is a long term commitment. Unfortunately I find that the rarity of certain animals only encourages the interest in having one that much more. FRT are great turtles if you have the space and budget to keep one. Their price tag is just the beginning.....:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That is true. So it would be around $400 for the turtle, and then I'd probably start with a 125 gallon tank, so another $200 (used), overated canister filter $250 (used), food ... etc etc etc so its probably going to be over 1000 bucks in the end. hahaha
well, I could technically use the scholarship money :p
I was blessed to have received the TD Canada Trust $70 000 Scholarship for any University in Canada, and they give me $7500 cash per year for 'living expenses' and since I'm going to SFU for Health Sciences and living at home, I could possibly set something aside from there =D
haha, I wanted to treat myself to something nice :p

maybe when I'm an Endodontist I'll get one :(

How big was the fly river turtle in the store when you first got it? were there ever any medical issues?
 

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There are cartain people on this site who bring them in, that's one of the reasons all these small ones are turning up. I got mine from another member and he got it from places I don't know. But they can be prone to disease especially when they are small. I bought mine with shell rot and it was underweight, these were the reasons why I got here so cheap. Well after a trip to the vet I got her the right meds and a better diet. She is doing great now and growing with no more shell rot. Just make sure to look for the signs of the healthy one when you buy one. Don't go to king-eds or anything like that b/c like you already stated they are not in the best care and they want top price for a little one. Interesting though b/c up until you posted this thread I never knew they were illegal to export. Very interesting indeed. I've never heard of anyone here in Canada getting the eggs and then raising them up, they usually come in at the 3.5" size.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If you don't mind me asking, could you please PM me how much you paid and the seller's id as well?
 

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There may be no legal consequences to buying one, but you may want to consider the moral implications. You are obviously a turtle lover. Do you really want to contribute to worsening the situation of a threatened species? These things are only taken out of the wild because there are unethical hobbyists willing to pay for them. Maybe think about getting a species that is bred in captivity.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have a Yellow Belly Slider already.
These Fly River Turtles are so cute! haha...
I understand that they are a threatened species, and inevetably they are going to go extinct probably due to hobbiests, unless they figure out how to captively breed them...well anways, we may as well enjoy them while they are here:D. I am confident that I can supply a better home then others may supply and I could always get one that has shell rot and nurse it back to health to make it morally good :) hahaha
 

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I have a Yellow Belly Slider already.
These Fly River Turtles are so cute! haha...
I understand that they are a threatened species, and inevetably they are going to go extinct probably due to hobbiests, unless they figure out how to captively breed them...well anways, we may as well enjoy them while they are here:D. I am confident that I can supply a better home then others may supply and I could always get one that has shell rot and nurse it back to health to make it morally good :) hahaha
It isn't about supplying a better home for an individual turtle, it's about not creating a market for endangered species. Extinction is only inevitible if people like us act irresponsibly. A species is not a disposable product to "enjoy them while they are here" and then move on and destroy another.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
TomC, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I am saying that basically, even if I were to not take another FRT out of the wild, it will literally have no effect on the overall population because there are so many others who are getting them as well. The Market is already booming...And don't try to give me that "every one of them counts" lecture because everyone else is just going to keep taking them from the wild until there are none left, and that is just the reality you need to learn to deal with. Ethically, it may seem wrong to remove a depleting species from the wild, but if you try to understand that not everyone will stop and the species will no longer reside in the wild some day, you will then understand that we can still preserve this species in captivity. Please don't be so closed minded and please try to understand other peoples point of view. Now, about the whole 'supplying a better home thing', what I am saying is that if we continue removing them at the rate we are now, eventually, they will mostly exist in captivity and what I am saying is that there are tonnes of hobbiests who do not care properly for these kind of pets, and if they are going to go to a hobbiest anyways, I might as well do my best to give one a good home. Think about the future, it's too late to reverse something that is already well underway.

King-eL, I am not so sure about the breeding...but if its true then GOOD NEWS! I am worried that it may be a selling tactic for people like TomC :p jokes.. haha anyways, it just sounds peculiar that they are being captive bred "in indonesia"..I'll believe it when they are bred here.
 

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TomC, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I am saying that basically, even if I were to not take another FRT out of the wild, it will literally have no effect on the overall population because there are so many others who are getting them as well. The Market is already booming...And don't try to give me that "every one of them counts" lecture because everyone else is just going to keep taking them from the wild until there are none left, and that is just the reality you need to learn to deal with. Ethically, it may seem wrong to remove a depleting species from the wild, but if you try to understand that not everyone will stop and the species will no longer reside in the wild some day, you will then understand that we can still preserve this species in captivity. Please don't be so closed minded and please try to understand other peoples point of view. Now, about the whole 'supplying a better home thing', what I am saying is that if we continue removing them at the rate we are now, eventually, they will mostly exist in captivity and what I am saying is that there are tonnes of hobbiests who do not care properly for these kind of pets, and if they are going to go to a hobbiest anyways, I might as well do my best to give one a good home. Think about the future, it's too late to reverse something that is already well underway.
So if you apply your ethics to natural gas, we should continue using all the gas we can because someone else will use it and eventually it will all be gone? That's a poor way to justify it. I'm not saying it's wrong to keep these turtles (I have one myself) but if you're going to do it make sure you plan for the future. You'll need a huge (300g+) tank and provide it with fresh vegetables/fruit regularly. Since you're just starting university, I'm not sure you'll have that much time to change that much water and keep giving it a proper diet. I'm in my 4th year and I'm having troubles keeping up with the demand of the turtle, luckily I have people at home who know how to take care of it in my absence.

By the way, I only purchased one because the opportunity presented itself to me and I know how rare the turtles are, I didn't actively search for one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
gas is completely different, we burn it and it is completely gone within a very short amount of time and we need it to opperate and survive.... This is a species, that lives many many years and we can preserve it in captivity....bad analogy man.
 
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