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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
now a 33 G Display again, new pics to come...
33 G Display tank, March 2013

20 G Display tank, Feb 2012

20 G Display tank, Nov 2012

20 G Display tank, Oct 2012


33 G Sump, Deep Sand bed w/ live rock rack

approx total water volume: 55-58 G

Lighting:
DiY Homemade fixture, GU10 bulbs custom manufactured
21 bulbs 3x2W LEDs each (blend of Blue/Pure White/Cool LEDs)

Equipment:
Maxijet pro 400 (circulation sump)
Coralife CP 750 (circulation display tank)
Rio 1400+ (return pump)
Prizm Pro 300G HoB Skimmer (on sump)
150W heater (in sump)

Plumping:
1x 3/4" full siphon w/ valve
2x 3/4" Open channel
1x 1/2" lockline return

Fish:
Ocellaris clown
clown goby
purple firefish
tailspot blenny
neon blue goby
lyretail anthias
six line wrasse

Corals:
Neon Green Leather
Orange Rhodactis Mushroom
Orange Ricordia
Green Stripe Mushroom
Green and Blue Caribbean Bullseye Mushroom
green star polyps
white button polyps
Brown button polyps
a couple unknown Zoanthids
Candy Cane
torch coral
Anthelia
Soft Finger Leather (not doing well atm)
favia
frogspawn

macro algae:
Halimeda
Red Gracilaria

Inverts:
Hawaiian Feather Duster
Blue Legged Hermits
Red Legged Hermits
Cerinth Snails
stomatella Snails

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On to the journal:
I have 3 33G tanks so i allotted 2 of them for my latest endeavor into salt. Right now i have The tanks being water tested after being resealed, so im in the design phases of my Sump, since i can make many components while the tanks are sitting filled in the garage.

here is revision one on the design, prior to having a couple experts with the specific set up give their opinions:


The dimensions are not dead set, but i do intend to box in my intake section like that so i can keep it accessible without taking up too much room (ie not full width baffles to close together to get anything done), it still needs to go through 2 baffles prior to getting to the DSB

The goal in the sump is to maintain a high flow rate (35x to 40x) to keep detritus suspended as much as possible so Processing can be shared with the Display tank, LR in the sump, and the DSB.
The Egg crate will be on stand offs, i plan on having the Egg crate in 2 sections taking up 2/3s of the space but standoffs available to shift them over for maintenance.

The DSB will be 5 Inches deep and take up as much surface area as i can spare.

I have no issues Water changing, so i will be running skimmer-less, as for a refugium, i will add one if nitrates become an issue, but for now i want no light in my sump (well maybe a couple of Red LED bulbs (3x1W) mounted high up in the stand to view the activity of the bed)

worst case scenerio, i can add a refugium area with the return side within egg crate
 

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I'd stay away from powerheads in your sump, you'll so a better alternative to lr in the sump is a bioreactor.
 

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Also you might want to lower water level in the sump by lowering your baffles as the sump has to be able to handle all the runoff from the display in the event of a power outage or pump failure


What I'm running:
Basically it's a baffle less 75g with the water lvl at 10", ATo to maintain water level, 3 bio reactors (taking into account my system is over 300g), skimmer, lr rubble for my eel, 2 300w heaters and a phosphate reactor

Also a 20g cube refugium with mushrooms, a damsel and 9 mangroves

Dsb is always a good thing IMO but as far as I know it's better to avoid too much flow ie: powerheads, if you don't mind a lot of maintenance you can always throw on a filter sock to remove suspended particles but make sure you wash it in a regular basis
 

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I would recommend having 6" of sand in a rubbermaid container in your sump, that way you can remove it later if you find it is not working properly. If the sand sitting in the sump, it will be a PITA to siphon out in case you change your mind.

6" I think is the recommended depth.

I would also skip the powerhead in the sump and have the live rock lower or you'll have no excess capacity for water draining from your display in case of power outage as spitfire explained.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The reason for going 5inches is because i read that the depth should be propeortiknal to the tank size. reading into dsbs i found that the recommended is 4 to 6 inches. Going deeper is often employed by those going for a remote dsb which is based on a different concept. so since im pyshing it with surface area still being low, deeper will not help increase fauna.

The rack i showed higher on the model but i plan on having it much closr to the dsb. The baffles will be lower for sure to handle a powr failure for sure

As for the powerhead, the reason they recommend dsbs located in the display tank is becauae they require a high flow. My sump without a powerhead will be too low flow and lijely become a nitratw sink.

Now for the containers, i cand find one in the dimensions i need. To piece together several containers creates more areas for detritus to get trapped


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
 

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Your water level is high. Depends on how big the display tank is and how big the sump is, adjust the high of the water level from there. Normally, no more than 1/2 full in a sump in case of water going back deal to power outage both from intake and outflow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The sukp is complete with only minimal adjustments. The intake has been modied to only take up a corner of the tank and the baffle heights are not all the way to the top eithr about three quarters. Since the sump is the same size of the display tank and il be going almost coast to coast bean animal atyle.overflow i dont think theres much worry over power outtage

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've been a bit lazy with my projects ever since i scrapped my 29 gallon tank stand, so i figured i'd post an update on this tanks progress and i figured i'd spare you the horrible fat finger tapatalk mistypes. So as i said, the sump was complete, well it almost was, all that was left was to install the racking as mentioned prior. For those who dont read everything because their whole exisistence is based on TL:DR, THE BAFFLE HEIGHT ISN'T PERMANENT! Once i figure out how much water the returns and overflow will fill the sump in an outtage, i will cut the baffle down with my trusty dremel tool :D. SO now on to the pictures.

This is the intake corner i modified from the initial design, it was a hell of a lot easier to install than a box would have been. It was my first time using a rotary tool, so that is where that big line off the square is from, me rushing things...


and return side, its small i know, but i have no plans for a skimmer since i would much rather water change than dose a half dozen different suppliments.


and the egg crate shelves. My wife loved stepping on those plastic pieces throughout the living room and bedroom (i got bored of the tv and moved to the PC while making them)


The supports for the racks. yes i could have just simple did 2 risers on each side of the tank, and used a strip of egg crate, but i found too much movement that way, this way locks in each shelf.


The shelving side shot :p the height should give sufficient space between sand bed and rack for optimal flow, without risking being too high if i adjust the water level of the compartment. Not only could this house the live rock rubble for filter feeders, i could use this racking for frags.


full sump shot from above, as said in a previous post, i can use both my return area and the overflow in the Display tank to house macro algae if my parameters show a refugium is needed.


Im attempting to use a old water bottle that started to leak from the tap spout as an ATO. it will be like the Ice tea jar style ATos, gravity fed, when the water level is at the height of a smaller air line (from the top of the ATO), it will stop the flow of the bigger tube, like a thumb on a straw. I just don't know if the container is rigid enough to work


So for now what am i doing? Tank stand! becuase this tank and sump are the same dimensions i am forced to oversize the top portion. THis initially got me wanting to use plywood only (3/4 inch). Plywood without any other wood to brace, can be plenty strong enough to hold capacities far larger than my set up, if the joints are done properly. I was really excited to finally do a decent wood working job, since i haven't really. Looked up relentlessly for the best joints to use, settled on a layout, priced the material etc.

Then the wife says, 'you are doing the stand how i liked right?' she likes the vertical slates skinned around the tank, so using 3/4" plywood, and then skinning with further panelling seemed overkill and more costly, so a rocket style tank stand it is! bring on the 2x4s. I look at the Rocket Template and start fine tuning the design, since its overkill and i know how to make a square cut. I have to add more length and depth to fit the sump underneath (2x4s are wide, why i wanted to stick with plywood). added depth isn't to bad imo, but the length would be annoying, to solve this, i am replacing the 4 of the 2x4s with 1x3s, since his write up says they hold minimal weight and are there for bracing and backing for skinning mostly. Doesn't seem like much, but reducing 1.5 inches around the tank to 3/4 inches means its much easier for me to frame in the tank trim without it being so bulky.

The plus side to going with a rocket build is i have 2x4s, 2x6s and 2x2s in the garage. Enought for just about one tank stand. I wont be using the 2x6s, but i will be using 2x2s pieces in place of the green studs, since its for keeping the structure square, and a full stuf length makes me need even more stand length. So most of the tank stand pieces are cut in the garage, and tomorrow i make another trip to rona for some lumber. On a side note, i cant believe the screws cost me more than all the lumber i need.

A lot of pieces i needed for the project i didn't have, so it really added to the cost, but they are tools in the end, so i wont "count it" in my budget :p (dremel bits, countersink, table saw blade, etc)

One thing i dont know about is what am i going to use for a sealer, i dont want to spend much on it, since i will be skinning the stand anyways colour isn't a big deal, prefer a cheap black if available but clear would suffice.
 

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When you refer to sealant, are you referring to something to apply to the unskinned portion of the tank as in the whole inside( and outside under the skin) of the stand? Or a sealant for seams/joints as in resealing a tank? I presume you meat the first reference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes meant the frame, inside and otside under the sknning. Ill just siicone the seams inside the stand (and make.sure i allow for breathing so moisture can escape)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I had to put a lot on hold because work slowed down for a bit but now im getting back on track. The stands are made, just not skinned yet. The sump has been operational for some time now and is doing great. It is full of feather dusters, peanut worms and brittle starts on the live rock rack, and the sand bed, whilst not build up much yet, is filled with activity.


to get the sump started i cleared out my old sump and the 10 gallon tanks sand to add with the sand i bought so far, so atleast the depth was good enough to start. To reduce evapouration i used egg crate covered with a thick plastic material, its not the best, but it was easy to work with :)



I wired the plugs temporarily where they are now because to have them more accessible means my 5 yo will reprogram my lights :/ Also the receptacles are still x10, and so i will need to replace them with standard receptacles as x10 fails at switching. The plumbing is just the same i had on the 10 gallon's sump set up, rather than cut new lengths, i just pulled it off and use it. atleast this way i can still water change at ease.

Now my 10 gallon tank, its only running to maintain the sump and keep my live stock going, but i got tired of the bryopsis, so i nuked that with h2o2, which killed most of it, then i removed the background. completely. Since then there is no bryopsis on my LR, the hermits keep the Rock fairly clean. So because the background was removed, theres large streaks of silicone everywhere, but since its temporary i can live with it:



You'll notice the big hole on one side and the strip on the other, that is for airflow beneath the tank, it will fit a large computer fan

Now for the new tank, it is based off a bean animal overflow system, so to reduce the size of the overflow, i decided to go external with a narrow long coast to coast overflow to skim the top efficiently. because i wanted a black overflow, the glass place had no scrap acryllic or dark glass so i opted for clear thick acrylic so i can atleast get some krylon fusion. To connect to the external overflow box, i drilled two 1 1/2" holes. i'll be leaving them just as holes, no bulkheads because the box will be glass siliconed directly to the tank.

heres the drilled back:


and the plan, the glass has already been cut and i'll be picking it up monday morning


So thats a bean animal system. 1 full syphon, 1 open channel with an airline out the top, and one emergency open channel.
the open channel will handle about 1% of the flow normally, if the full syphon (which handles 99%) gets blocked, the water level rises in the overflow box and seals off the air line end, that traps the air and the open channel becomes a second full syphon and the emergency then will handle whatever little excess if the second syphon isn't enough. Its a fail safe system that achieves silence by greatly reducing the amount of air sucked into the intakes. I'll be likely using the extra space in the overflow box as a refugium.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well i finished the overflow box, siliconed it on, painted the back and also the internal overflow. plumbed it, filled and transfered livestock. 12 hours later the tank the glass cracked from top of the overflow box edge to the side at around 6 inch (due to glass being prevented from bowing without proper bracing). A while back i inquired about the amount of bowing the tank did but i guess i heard what i wanted to hear rather than go with my gut and brace it. Sucks after putting all that work and excitement into it, even my fish hating wife is disappointed that we never got to get this tank going fully.

So lesson learnt!

For now i have a 20 gallon sitting empty, my old sump for the 10 reef with no baffles, this will be the temporary home for the stock as i sit on this near catastrophe (im home fridays luckily). I'll still drill this tank, despite it being temporary since i got all the equipment in the new sump.

so down the road i'll be getting a new tank i guess, might even euro brace it, Was just a 33G standard size, (36x12 footprint), so might look for something with a bit less height so my wife has an easier time cleaning the glass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
oh the acrylic was only inside as the internal overflow, i left over an eight of an inch to take into account exansion, it was glass to glass where it broke. So far i have the 20 gallon drilled (3 holes) for a bean animal overflow, but it wont actually have an overflow box at all since its 'temporary.' Its also sitting in the garage drying from the background paint. I'll be using 2 up facing 90s for my two open channels, this way the water line will still be above the black rim bottom, and my siphon will be down facing of course. i will figure something out to prevent the siphon from sucking in livestock. Out of habit i try to make temporary solutions atleast look decent, since i easily procastinate
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Temporary tank done and set up! I must say i am impressed with the Bean Animal overflow system, even with the first open channel facing up, its completely silent once the siphon is tuned! The only thing i needed to do was place a #8 self tapper hole just above the sumps water level to help start the siphon quicker. Without it, it still works, but it takes a lot longer for the start up to kick in the siphon, so the emergency open channel is then used a bit, with the hole in the siphon tube the emergency is not used at all :D I think when it comes down to replacing the tank with one better fit for the tank stand, i will do the exact set up, without the overflow box outside or coast to coast internal. It looks very clean with the black background and the water line is perfect.

So the fishies are happy, the corals are recovering (found a penny in the sump, which explains why they were crashing), and the skimmer seems to be skimming nothing despite it almost running full speed (any faster it will just be removing mostly water). Just need more liverock, more sand (barebottom right now) and more fishies and i will be happy :p

i also found the wife browsing jlaquatics.com for stuff.... i think she is finally realizing how little i spend on the hobby compared to what i could be spending :p She's demanding better tank cleaning products..

I'll get a pick up when the water clears up a bit more :)

edit: lastly, anyone know how to catch a rogue blue neon goby who got in my sump (transfered rock and he was in a hole...) Everytime i try he hides between the baffles and causes me to want to smash the tank in frustration. he's limited to the last compartment, i managed to get him to jump the last baffle so he's atleast easy to find :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Here is a picture of the tank a from a few days ago, not long after i set it up. The inhabitants are much happier now, especially with the skimmer working for a while now and the penny no longer in the sump. Oh and i finally got the blue neon out of the sump.


This is how the intakes look from both sides. I only used a valve on the siphon intake because it is all thats needed.



here is the 33G's overflow box after i assembled it. the one partially the reason for the 33 Cracking.


And a clown photo since they seem to be the craze :p
 

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Thanks for the update Neven. And yes, clown pics are the craze:bigsmile:

Glad you caught out your neon goby. I've also had the terrible urge to tear down a tank to catch a fish or two that I needed out of there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
yea i almost ripped out a baffle to get to the damn fish :p my wife even tried for over an hour to catch him. I ended up draining the section almost dry and using egg crate between the baffles to box him in.4 Now i need more live rock, a couple more fishies and of course more colourful corals that don't have an insulting price tag to them :p Any recommendations on fish? i plan on getting a couple more green chromis since i love their colours and activity, but would be nice to get something else in there too.

Current stock:
Ocellaris clown
Blue neon goby
Green Chromis
Water volume = atleast 45 Gallons
 
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